Date: 01 Jul 2005
Subject: Re: More On Bhagavan, Amma And GAF
From: Janneke Monshouwer <coreline@worldonline.nl>
Dear Jean,
First of all I am so pleased to inform you that I am very very happy with today’s wonderful message from Kiara Windrider that I will receive $1655 - back from the Golden City the end of July (more than I asked for). I had asked some money back because of the fact that I had borrowed all the money, so for me it was all right to pay the course but not the extra donation for building the temple and other things. Kiara wrote me that 6 other people from the Netherlands, who also asked some money back, will receive a return payment also. Regarding the other money issue: I had asked also a return payment of half of the coordination money from Kiara not only for myself but for the whole group. Two weeks ago I received an email from Kiara asking my bank number. Than I wrote our whole group to inform them about this message, so everyone could decide for her/him self to ask some money back or not. And now I am really happy. In my case: With the return of this money this whole issue shall be solved by than.
I also read the letter of Barry Martin Snyder (below). And first I want to tell you: A few weeks ago I received an email from Karen, Barry’s partner, with her comment about my feelings and decision to withdraw myself from the Oneness Movement, she wrote me that she herself had very positive experiences. We were in the same 21-day course in February. And Jean, I need to inform you: in Kiara’s new book “Fire From Heaven” is chapter 14 written by Barry Martin. There I read (in short) that Karen was the one who in 2003 read an article about Bhagavan and the Experience Festival in India. She mentioned this phenomenon to Kiara, who was in India on that moment. Kiara and Grace went to that festival, where they met Bhagavan and received deeksha. When Kiara wrote Barry that Grace became enlightened there, Barry wanted to know more. Barry started to meditate with a picture of Bhagavan and felt an inflow of white/golden light. I quote Barry here (I translate back from Dutch): “There came a dawning of certain knowing, that the experiencing of Bhagavan’s presence in one way or another should mean THE next and last step on my journey to awakening. And he describes what he experiences with the deeksha’s given by the dasa’s (disciples of Bhagavan, guides of the Golden City).”
And further Barry describes his experiences in the Golden City and beyond. Later in this story he writes, I quote (I try to translate this well, back from Dutch): “Now it is clear that enlightenment means that the awareness dawns that I AM THAT, and that THAT is the highest of all light, the highest of all love, the highest of all intelligence, the highest truth that Bhagavan is. Bhagavan is the mediator who brings this all to humanity! He is the complete, full embodiment of THAT, with the ability/power to pass this awareness on to humanity.’ So Jean, when you have that book, please read this chapter yourself.
My point is: when Barry writes in his letter below that Amma and Bhagavan are not important for them to do their work, giving deeksha’s– that is something completely different than Barry’s words and experiences in Kiara’s book.
In Barry’s letter below he mentions that by giving and receiving deeksha’s we don’t need to tune in on Bhagavan and Amma, but that everybody can tune in to her/his own Divinity- for many Westerners Jesus Christ. This sounds beautiful. But the question is: Is that true? In fact I see other things: I see people who are initiated in giving these deeksha’s, have an imprint of Amma & Bhagavan, also when they don’t mention their names- and only speak about Jesus Christ or others. And also: I see these people making them selves totally dependent from persons/spirits outside them selves, in this case: Amma & Bhagavan- and also Jesus Christ, or Krishna, or others.
And before we (our group) went to India, Grace, Kiara’s wife told us about prostration, she said: you don’t need to bother about that, take this not too heavy, this is an Indian custom. But when I was there, we even had to prostrate for Amma & Bhagavan’s picture! During the course this was an every-day MUST. And of course also when there were darshans with Bhagavan or Amma, we always had to prostrate ourselves two times: before and after- with the result that we should feel much devotion, make them very BIG and feel very little ourselves. A very OLD feeling of manipulation. This is their purpose: we have to surrender totally. They say: only when you surrender, your selves can die, and you become enlightened. This phenomenon looks like ages ago. And when I zoom in on this I notice : In this way Amma and Baghavan receives all our energy, our power- and much money. These deeksha’s work as drugs. This is no enlightenment at all, but a kind of ecstasy/trance and out of body experiences and regression. This is no oneness at all, this is no love at all, but a symbiosis- everyone is dependent of the leader(s)- and each other.
This manipulation is a very dangerous phenomenon. Every where, every time I see this same manipulation in another coat: for the leaders of countries, for royal families, for the pope, for managers, for (some) parents. They act in such a way that we have to give our power and money away- to THEM.
When Amma & Bhagavan should really be Avatars, Divine Beings, they should awaken people to become totally independent, not to give our power away, but to USE our power to help to make a paradise on Earth and to love unconditionally.
Dear Jean, this is my comment on Barry’s letter.
And on the letter about the Oneness Movement and Amma and Bhagavan by Ananth (Note Nr.: 308 from 2005-06-29 06:23:11 ) I want to say:
There is a misunderstanding what I need to clear: people may think that I am confusing things because I know nothing about life in India. I can say: Yes this was the first time I was in India- and I stayed there two whole months. But, I worked many years in many (different) countries in Africa- There I made films with the local and native people and with many India-rooted people- and I lived 13 years (partly) in Tobago, West Indies, also with people with Africa roots and people with Indian roots and many others. I also lived in Italy, worked in Spain, stayed in North and South America. In my own country I coached people from India, also Ram Soekhoe, one of the best cameramen in my country. I learned from him and all my other India-rooted friends many things about Indian customs, family duties and so on. I feel I have the ability to discern differences in culture and I am used to live and work with these people.
About miraculous images/experiences, this is curious, I wondered all my life: In the Roman Catholic church there are people experiencing to have stigmata or see a statue of Maria cry- tears come out of the eyes, or seeing Jesus bleeding out of his wounds– and other things. I don’t have any comment on this. I only have questions- and I read in Matthew Books that Jesus never died on the cross. When this is true, for me this is a wonderful message. But anyhow, my questions are: why see some people Jesus bleeding on the cross – and many more images related on that ? I feel: this don’t need to be facts to demonstrate or to proof that something should be true. Other people see this as a prove - and than they can fully surrender to that person/ spirit. And here with Amma & Bhagavan, in Ananth’s letter and also in the book “Miracles of Kalki” people experience miracles, images, the crying of Bhagavan’s picture- and so on. I have no comment on this, only questions. One of my question is: can we project inner feelings or power on things outside ourselves?
Maybe someone can give me an answer on these questions ?
With many greetings and love
Janneke